Big Brain Time : (MCU) Hulk the Super Soldier

The Incredible Hulk - Main Theme - Craig Armstrong

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The MCU has its own lore, very different from comics. And so, what if Hulk was in fact a Super Soldier in the MCU?

Let me explain :

The Incredible Hulk movie (2008) :

There're still people out there who think the movie isn't canon because of a different actor so little disclaimer : it is. That's the first thing we need to say, it's canon, there's no debate so I'm not gonna go back to this.

The MCU is inspired by the Ultimate comics so you have some change with characters' personality and origin story. For exemple, Sam is a teacher in a NY University in the MCU because that's what he is in Ultimate (don't bother reading about Sam in the Ultimate. Bruce didn't mutate through an accident but through an experiment he tested on himself.

I love the Incredible Hulk movie, it's one of my comfort movie so I often rewatch it.

It is the second MCU movie, it came out after Iron Man and before Captain America and it introduced the concept of MCU through its famous post credit scene :

Yes, yes, I know, you had Fury teasing it in Iron Man but now it was canon. Fury felt more of an homage than a build up back then. I mean, while the MCU didn't create the concept of cinematic universe it sure democratised it. Nobody knew Fury was here to introduce that, it was kind of confirmed through Tony showing up in Hulk.

Let's talk about the movie itself now. Bruce is on the run, he's trying to cure himself while escaping from the army, helped by a mysterious Mr Blue and chased down by Thaddeus Ross and Emil Blonsky.

Eventually they find him, there's a clash, first Hulking out (very very cool one btw, following horror codes and keeping Hulk in the dark work so well, I want them to do that with Hulk again and with Sam). Blonsky confronts Ross about Hulk and that's what he says :

You cannot be clearer. Ross was trying to re-create the Super Soldier Serum and Bruce was "really close" to succeed until Hulk happened, something went bad "or very well". He's literally saying Hulk, born from the Super Soldier test, is a success. He is a Super Solder. Of a new kind, obviously, but a Super Soldier nonetheless.

That's the thing, in the MCU Hulk wasn't created because they tried to build a bomb like comics, he was created because they were trying to bring back Super Soldiers.

After that little conversation, Ross is giving Blonsky the opportunity to inject him an imperfect Super Soldier serum they kept for decades. It's still not nearly as strong as Captain's or as Hulk but it does make him heal quite fast.

Reinstein is Erskine's other name in comics and if you know the MCU you know Erskine, the good Doctor who chose Steve Rogers as his Super Soldier in Captain America the First Avengers.

Weapon Plus refers to the US Army's wish to create Super Soldier, not only Captain America but also Wolverine, for exemple. All these projects are called Weapon *number or letter* and are part of the Weapon Plus program.

You can also notice the blue color used for Super Soldier Serum in other MCU movies and shows, it became the signature color of this serum.

As Ross said, Bruce was in the early phase of re-creating the serum and his experiments were pretty promising. However, because he understood the danger of his researches, he flew away, with it but also his blood (obviously), the two key needed to continue that program and get the Super Serum.

We mentionned a Mr. Blue earlier so let's go back to them. In comics Mr Blue was a mysterious character helping out Bruce, leading him here and there through e-mails and instant messaging. Eventually, it turned out to be Betty. Here it's pretty similar, Mr Blue is also helping Bruce through e-mails and instant messaging. In fact, Mr Blue is also the "guideline" of the whole movie, everything happens because Mr Blue asked Bruce for something, kind of forcing Bruce to put himself in danger (of course it wasn't Mr Blue's intention, he couldn't know the army would trace them both)

First time we "see" Mr Blue it's about a flower Bruce had to find.

I love the dynamic between Bruce and Mr Blue, it's very comics accurate to who Mr Blue is.

So, Bruce sends a sample of his blood to that person who recontacts him soon after, asking him for more data. He'll go back to his "home" to take it after being chased down by the army and Hulking out, so again out of complet despair. He gets reunited with Betty, showing comics reader that Mr Blue isn't Betty. Send the data to Mr Blue and asking to meet him.

Bruce and Betty are being chased down together, Blonsky comes back from the dead (he wasn't dead, I'm exagerating, but he was not so good) thanks to that Super Soldier stuff he got in his blood but starts developping some... Pretty odd behaviors, addiction symptoms kind of, having him looking for more.

Anyway, what you need to focus on is how now Mr Blue has both Bruce's blood and the data. You follow? Mr Blue has everything needed to continu Bruce's experiments on the Super Soldier, Bruce is no longer the only key to re-create Super Soldiers, so is Mr Blue. The only thing needed now is the knowledge.

And even if Mr Blue was pretty damn manipulative to Bruce (not necessarly on purpose, but rather because he got carried away by his own excitation) he really was trying to help him, he didn't lie about that. Though his main interest was most likely scienc, he was genuine about helping him out, so he doesn't know shit about Super Soldier, it wasn't some army trap and he can't re-create something he has no knowledge of, for now.

But in the MCU Mr Blue isn't Betty, that's Sam, Samuel Sterns, the Leader. Hulk's main antagonist, love of my life, you know him well if you've been following me here and there.

But unfortunatly for our not-evil-yet Sam, when bruce asked him to meet he was stalked by the US army, having them found out Mr Blue identity and more importantly where he is.

It's not important to the post but for the record, when I first watched Incredible Hulk, I didn't know Sam was in it, so this moment drove me CRAZY

The army found him, they spy on our little trio, waiting for the right moment to step in.

Meanwhile our little Sam is curing Bruce (supposedly, at least, 'cause Hulk will comeback as you know) and develops his very infamous obsession for Hulk in the process. Notice how his little hand is slowly reaching for Hulk's body as he's completly forgetting what he's doing, way too absorbed by what he's witnessing. I like to think that's the moment the Leader was truly born.

After that Sam proudly shows his experiments to Bruce and Betty, explaining that he duplicated Bruce's blood. Keep that in mind for later.

Shit happens, the army breaks down because of Blonsky, they want to force Sam into creating more, he's explaining he can't 'cause it was an accident, Blonsky threatens him so Sam is forced to inject him Bruce's blood batch 2058 (meaning there's this many samples, it's also important).

It's dense, isn't it? So let's make a quick recap :

Ross tried to re-create the Super Soldier Serum, Bruce nearly succeeded but flew away with his data and blood (both needed to finish that project). Sam got the needed data and blood, Sam can duplicate Bruce's blood and has a shit tons of samples already. Sam mutated.

Oh right, I forgot to mention it, because of Blonsky Sam got a wound on his head and Bruce's blood dripped in and last time we saw the boy he was lying on the floor with his forehead clearly mutating and the creepiest smile on his face, teasing the Leader.

And that's it, no need to talk about the end of the movie it's irrelevant for what's next and you probably all know it anyway but right now that's where we are, one of the two people who can re-create the Super Soldier serum became, like his comics self, one of the smartest being so who needs Bruce's knowledge now?

But what happened to Sam afterward? Well it's unclear and it will probably be adressed pretty soon but if the Fury's big week comics are still canon, S.H.I.E.L.D found Sam, abducted him to study him and let's say that if Sam ever goes out he'll be super upset about what they did to him. However, the S.H.I.E.L.D is no more. Most of the S.H.I.E.L.D experiments and weapons are now in the end of the US army.

So if it's still canon Sam ended up with Ross, if it's not canon we can assume that he still ended up with Ross 'cause y'know what? Red Hulk.

Captain America Era :

Let's quickly mention Falcon and the Winter Soldier (Cap 4 prelogy, basically). Sam (Wilson)'s quest was to find and stop whoever was re-creating and giving away the Super Soldier Serum.

When the show came out I remember making a whole-ass thread explaining how if the MCU was well written we would see Sam (Sterns) because he's the only one who can do that with Bruce atm, cursing about how we would not see him anyway because the MCU is full of plot hole. Then we got that random scientist who was killed off in two sec and don't you think that's, like, super odd? Someone RE-CREATED THE DAMN SERUM and it's a nobody? Not even a name dropping? Killed that easily? Feels odd to me. Especially when you know in comics that's something Sam (Sterns, I'll have to be more specific now 'cause there's two Sam) often does, having someone else take the blame for him. He's a character of the shadow, barely showing up.

But still, I was disappointed 'cause to me it was the only chance to get Sam (Sterns) back in the MCU but finally as the LEADER, we had his origin story, different from the comics but still pretty cool (Tim Blake Nelson is a SICK Sam Sterns, he did a great job) and Kevin Feige once said he wanted to bring him back but with the right opportunity and damn, the opportunity was right there, it made so much sense to have him HERE, of ALL the MCU character, it was HIM, it had to be HIM, so even if I don't let my own expectation ruin my fun (loved Falcon and the Winter Soldier anyway, it made me love Sam Wilson), I still felt disappointed.

Until 2022 D23.

You had to be here back when I was still using Twitter, it was fire. Out of nowhere, Tim Blake Nelson casually showed up during the Cap 4 panel to reprise his role as the Leader and I was "NO WAAAY" but when you think of it, it does make sense to the MCU lore, because it's following its own lore. Ross wanted to recreate the Super Soldier Serum and kind of started this whole plot, it started with Incredible Hulk, not Captain America the First Avengers. And Sam (Sterns), well, he's the only one who can help out Ross.

As we now know, Ross is the antagonist, he's going to be Red Hulk. Keep in mind that a huge part of the movie is being re-written atm so what I'm saying might turn out to be deleted and totally irrelevant to the final movie.

Sam Sterns will most likely have a key role, merely present probably, 'cause that's what he always does, it's part of his character, but a key role anyway. Similar to Incredible Hulk in the way that you saw him 5min on screen but the whole movie happened because he had Bruce going here and there.

Who is the Red Hulk ? It's Thaddeus Ross. What is Hulk in the MCU ? A Super Soldier, Ross, the man behind that program, is about to become the Super Soldier he's trying to re-create, the reason he was chasing Bruce was to finish that program after all. When you think of it, he didn't care about Bruce himself, he left him alone right after Sam mutated. Because he didn't need him anymore, he had Sam.

Who created Red Hulk in comics ? The Leader (and M.O.D.O.K.), so Sam. And if you have ever read a Red Hulk comics you know how he perfectly fit with the political ton of a Captain America movie. You also know Sam was ploting to put him as the President of the USA, his role in Cap 4.

Hulk vol.2 23 (2010) written by Jeff Loeb, art by Leinil Francis Yu

Now it's just speculation from my own gamma knowledge but follow me for a moment :

Do you know what happened during this Red Hulk run? A funeral. But not just any funeral.

Fall of the Hulks : Gamma (2009) written by Jeff Loeb, art by John Romita Jr

Fall of the Hulks : Gamma (2009) written by Jeff Loeb, art by John Romita Jr

Ross' funeral. And a lot of people are intending it, including Betty and even Captain America.

Now let's take a look at a few pictures from the (first) set of Captain America A Brave New World :

Betty and Cap attending a funeral.

We don't know if it's Ross but in Civil War Ross explained he suffered a heart attack. In Black Widow, Natacha mentionned he went into 3 heart surgery I believe so yeah, his health is pretty bad. He's dying. So it could very well be him. Because in the comics at first nobody knew who Red Hulk was, it was the main mystery of this plot, finding out. So what if, like in comics, Ross dies and comes back as Red Hulk?

Ross started the MCU quest for the Super Soldier Serum, this plot was first introduced in a Hulk movie, not a Cap movie, a quest Sam Wilson tried to stop, it would make sense to end it with them both in a Brave New World, following both MCU lore and comics accuracy. Bruce/Hulk is not needed to end this arc because Ross found Sam.

A Brave New World seems to highly take inspiration from Peter David's Era and Fall of the Hulks, which led to World War Hulks (and I insist on the 's' in Hulks, it's not World War Hulk), a bunch of gamma irradiated (because of Sam Sterns) fighting against Hulk, She-Hulk, Red Hulk etc etc... It's oddly similar to these World War Hulk movie rumors.

Now before we end, please remember everything Cap 4 is rumor and theories, it's not necessarly what the movie will be about!

Enjoy~

Future Lirhya from 2025 : it wasn't what the movie was about, though apparently Ross was meant to die in the first version. I wonder if the initial idea was about that or if they didn't think about it at all but it feels like another missed opportunity to me (though I did love the movie haha)